People Magazine article on Bernadette Protti. May 1985.
In a Deadly Explosion of Teenage Unhappiness, One Life Is Cut Short, Another Blighted by Murder
In comfortable, suburban Orinda, Calif., where the American dream is sometimes taken for granted, Kirsten Costas made adolescence look easy. A 15-year-old sophomore, she swam for the high school team. She belonged to the Bob-o-links, an exclusive volunteer group with sorority overtones. She won a place as a varsity cheerleader. "Kirsten had a good personality," says Jessica Grant, 16, her classmate at Miramonte High School. "She was pretty and vibrant." And she was one of Miramonte's elite.For Bernadette Protti, life was more of a struggle. An ordinary-looking girl, Bernadette, 15, also belonged to the Bob-o-links. She had good grades and a circle of friends. Yet in the glaring light of her merciless self-scrutiny, Bernadette was a failure. Surrounded by the sons and daughters of highly paid executives, she was embarrassed by the more modest means of her father, a retired public utilities supervisor for the city of San Francisco. She desperately wanted a place on the cheerleading squad. "She worked hard for cheerleader," recalls Jessica Grant. "She came up to me afterward and said, 'I didn't make it and I can't believe it.' She was really disappointed."
About that time Bernadette was also rejected by the selective Atlantis club and denied a place on the yearbook staff—standard teenage setbacks, but to Bernadette they were something more. "Bernadette was accepted and popular in her own way," says classmate Kris Johnson, 16. "But she had this obsession with being liked. I could never understand why she thought she wasn't."
Kirsten Costas probably never thought much about Bernadette. She had no way of knowing that Bernadette was thinking a great deal about her. To Bernadette, the pretty daughter of 3M executive Arthur Costas had become a painful reminder of feelings of failure. "She never liked me...," Bernadette explained later. "The thing that got me mad was it hurt." Not that Kirsten ever insulted her. "I mean she didn't really say, 'You're ugly' or something," Bernadette remembered. "She just said stuff that made me feel bad." Once, she recalled, she had been on a school ski trip with Kirsten: "I mean, we don't have a lot of money and stuff...and I just had this really crummy pair of skis and some boots, but...I was having fun anyway, and she made some comment about them.... It just seemed like everybody else was thinking that, but she was the only one who would ever come out and say that...."
Last June 21, a Thursday, while Kirsten was away at a cheerleader training camp, her mother, Berit, answered a 10 p.m. phone call. The girl on the line knew Kirsten wasn't home but said she wanted to tell her of a secret Bob-o-links initiation dinner that Saturday night. Kirsten returned home the next day, and on Saturday night her parents and her brother, Peter, 12, attended a potluck dinner for Peter's baseball team. Berit called home at 8:20 p.m. to wish Kirsten a good time with the Bob-o-links and to remind her to turn on the porch light. It was the last time she would speak to her daughter.
A little more than an hour later, a few miles away, Kirsten rang the doorbell of Alex and Mary Jane Arnold, who had just finished playing cribbage with neighbors. She said she had been with a friend at the church up the road and the friend had "gone weird." As Kirsten entered the house, Mary Jane noticed someone behind her on the front path—"a gal about 15 with a roundish face and light-brown hair." Kirsten seemed upset, but not terrified. Unable to reach her parents by telephone, she accepted Alex's offer of a ride to one of her family's neighbors. As they left, Mary Jane noticed a small car at the end of the driveway.
When Alex drove off, the car, a mustard-colored Pinto, seemed to be following. He asked Kirsten what was going on. "It's okay," she replied. Pulling into Kirsten's neighbor's driveway, Alex said he would wait until Kirsten got inside. He watched as she walked to the door, then saw a female figure swoop out of the darkness. He thought he was seeing a fist fight. Then the assailant disappeared in the shadows.
Attorney Arthur Hillman, another of the Costas' neighbors, was standing at his kitchen sink that night when he heard "a bloodcurdling yell." Rushing to his front door, he saw Kirsten staggering toward his house crying, "Help me, help me, I've been stabbed." She collapsed into his arms, blood gushing from five stab wounds in her upper body. "She was in shock," Hillman later testified. "I tried to hold her hand and pray a little on the side." Returning home a short time later, the Costas family found their normally quiet street clogged with police cars and fire trucks. Then Arthur Costas saw his daughter lying in an ambulance. She was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital at 11:02 p.m.
An hour earlier on that peaceful summer evening, Elaine Protti had suggested a walk when her daughter, Bernadette, returned home in the family Pinto. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. That summer Bernadette attended classes to prepare for confirmation in the Roman Catholic Church. She swam and saw friends. And she attended Kirsten's funeral. "I was really good at blocking [what had happened] out of my mind, and I still am," she said later. "That's why I can live through every day, because it doesn't seem real."
Surprisingly, it took authorities almost six months to find Kirsten's killer. Local sheriffs conducted more than 300 interviews, investigated more than 1,000 leads and examined 750 Pintos. Many Miramonte High School students were questioned. In the eyes of her classmates, Bernadette was an unlikely suspect. "I knew she had the Pinto, but she was the last person you'd think of," says her friend Jessica Grant. "She seemed as upset about the murder as everybody else."
Yet Bernadette's account of her activities on the night of the murder puzzled investigators. In December she was called back for questioning by FBI agent Ronald Hilley. Hilley reviewed for Bernadette the psychological profile that had been drawn of the murderer. After his description, Bernadette said quietly, "It sounds just like me." She asked what would happen to Kirsten's killer. The public humiliation, she said, might be worse even than prison. Then she asked to go home.
Over the next few days, Bernadette committed some of her thoughts to paper. This is what she wrote:
"1. I have caused a lot of hurt and pain to a lot of people....
2. I don't want to hurt people anymore.
3. I want to go to heaven when I die.
4. I regret what I did.
5. I can't bring Kirsten back or change time.
6. If I kill myself I will hurt people even more (my family). I think I could kill myself. I would go to hell if I killed myself. I would rather kill myself than go on living if people knew.... Although it's incredible, my parents are saints who would forgive and love me."
On the evening of December 10, Bernadette asked her mother, Elaine, if they could have a talk. "I'll take a nap, but wake me up later," Mrs. Protti replied. She slept through the night unintentionally and apologized to her daughter the next morning. "That's okay," Bernadette said. "I've written you a note. I put it on the kitchen counter." She asked her mother to wait half an hour before reading it. Elaine studied the Bible until the ticking kitchen timer went off. Then she read.
"Dear Mom and Dad:
I have been trying to tell you this all day but I love you so much it's too hard so I'm taking the easy way out.... The FBI man...thinks I did it. And he is right.... I've been able to live with it [for a while], but I can't ignore it, it's too much for me and I can't be that deceiving.... Please still love me. I can't live unless you love me. I've ruined my life and yours and I don't know what to do and I'm ashamed and scared."
She added a postscript: "Please don't say how could you or why because I don't understand this and I don't know why."
Elaine telephoned Bernadette at school and picked her up. "I wanted a last chance with my daughter," she said later. "I wanted not so much to talk to her but to be with her." With her husband, Raymond, Elaine drove Bernadette to the sheriff's office in nearby Martinez where the girl broke down and made a full confession to Hilley. She said that on the night of the murder she had driven to the Costas house and told Kirsten that the Bob-o-links dinner was just a cover story for Kirsten's parents. What was really happening was a party. According to Bernadette, Kirsten agreed to go but first suggested they smoke some marijuana outside a nearby church. (When the taped confession was played back in court during a three-day hearing in March, Kirsten's parents gasped in disbelief at the allegation.)
Bernadette said she balked at the marijuana. "We just talked, you know, argued, not argued really, but she didn't think it was any big deal, and I just didn't want to, and she made me feel dumb...," Bernadette told police. "She thought I was being weird." When Kirsten rushed from the Pinto in the church parking lot, she left behind some marijuana in a plastic bag, said Bernadette, who claimed she flushed it down the toilet when she got home. Bernadette also said she had found the murder knife just by chance—that she had never intended to kill. (Bernadette's sister, Gina, 25, testified that she often ate lunch in the car while at work, using the knife to cut vegetables.)
After the hearing, Judge Edward Merrill found Bernadette guilty of second-degree murder. She was sentenced last month to a maximum of nine years in the custody of the California Youth Authority and sent to a maximum-security facility near Camarillo. The Costas family, understandably, was hardly in a mood for forgiveness. During the testimony, Kirsten's mother glared at Bernadette, who sat slumped in a chair while her mother daubed at her daughter's eyes with a handkerchief, as four of the girl's sisters stroked Bernadette's hair and held her hands. "My heart is empty. I ache. I'm half a person," Berit Costas told the judge before Bernadette's sentencing. "[She] will probably be given her freedom in a few years.... I ask the people of California, is this justice?"
Some of Kirsten's classmates agreed it was not. "Whatever happens to Bernadette isn't going to be enough," said one. "I'm sorry for her," said another, "but I still want her to get everything she deserves. She shouldn't be allowed to forget what she did." There seems to be small chance of that. "I had dreams about [Kirsten]," Bernadette told Hilley. "I sort of apologized to her in my mind. You know, like I think she's in heaven now.... I sort of said that I'd still like to talk to her...." For Bernadette, it seems, Kirsten still represents a world from which she herself for so long felt excluded. What has changed is that now Bernadette truly is cut off from that world. And the one person whose acceptance meant so much, the one she so desperately wanted to talk to, has tragically been silenced forever.
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There s a big news clipping article that tells all about tge case and trial. Its all in thete some articles in this blog tell. Bernadette wasnt socially accepted and stayed home alot andher bestbfriend only friend s sibling was having a party and invited her and she got an automatic invite and she wanted to show. Kirsten she had cool friends. Kirsten s boyfriend didnt tease Bernadette over being flat chested that was otger boys who halfway liked Bernadette Kirstens boyfriend didnt like Bernadette and he and Kirsten poked a little fun at her that was in yhe newspaper articles. He just flat out never liked her even then. The other guys just teasef her over her jugs not being big they meant no harm
Like I said Bernadette was halfway pppular before that. Justvgoogle news articles of. Bernadette. Protti.
There s a big news clipping article that tells all about the case and trial. Its all in there some articles in this blog tell. Bernadette wasnt socially accepted and stayed home alot andher bestbfriend only friend s sibling was having a party and invited her and she got an automatic invite and she wanted to show. Kirsten she had cool friends. Kirsten s boyfriend didnt tease Bernadette over being flat chested that was other boys who halfway liked Bernadette Kirstens boyfriend didnt like Bernadette and he and Kirsten poked a little fun at her that was in the newspaper articles. He just flat out never liked her even then. The other guys just teasef her over her jugs not being big they meant no harm
Like I said Bernadette was halfway pppular before that. Just google news articles of. Bernadette. Protti.
Did it again messed up and tried to change mistakes and sent 2. That's what others should do not gty tge or piyl or whatever must be drunk or learn how to correct mistakes.
There s a big news clipping article that tells all about the case and trial. Its all in there some articles in this blog tell. Bernadette wasnt socially accepted and stayed home alot andher bestbfriend only friend s sibling was having a party and invited her and she got an automatic invite and she wanted to show. Kirsten she had cool friends. Kirsten s boyfriend didnt tease Bernadette over being flat chested that was other boys who halfway liked Bernadette Kirstens boyfriend didnt like Bernadette and he and Kirsten poked a little fun at her that was in the newspaper articles. He just flat out never liked her even then. The other guys just teasef her over her jugs not being big they meant no harm
Like I said Bernadette was halfway pppular before that. Just google news articles of. Bernadette. Protti.
Geez, some people here need to proofread before hitting "submit". Your posts give me a headache when I try to read them.
I concur with Susan. Please proofread your comments before publishing them, or they will be ignored because people have difficulty reading them.
"Bernadette wasn't socially accepted and stayed home alot and her best- friend only friend's sibling was having a party and invited her and she got an automatic invite and she wanted to show Kirsten she had cool friends.
Where did you read that? It isn't in the article you recommended or any article I have read. I thought the party was a made up scenario for the movie.
"Kirstens boyfriend didnt like Bernadette and he and Kirsten poked a little fun at her that was in the newspaper articles. He just flat out never liked her even then"
Not that it matters, but where did you read that?
"Like I said Bernadette was halfway popular before that"
How was she "halfway" popular?
She was perceived as nice, but bookish, insecure, desperate and timid.
What a lot to catch up on. I had to skip a few posts. With the misspelled words , initials, and just the jumping around, I was confused. Thanks everyone for answering my questions everyone. I have a lot to learn.
Bernadette just thinks she can run from her past. She can run but she cant hide. She tried to hide from the public when she got arrested begging cops not to let anyone find out it was her. She wouldn't of cared if someone else went to prison luje. Nancy or. Joanna as long as it wasnt her. Im glad FBI was onto her she knew they were thats why she confessed in real life. Her sister s covered up her story and I think Bernadette planned it all along not a spur of the moment thing. She said she figured someone woukd help Kirsten Right. She knew what she was doing shes just sorry she got caught and the community hated her and outed her for what she did. Kirsten is missed to this day. She wasnt a bully at all. In one article she hugged people and accepted people everypne loved Kirsten. Her best friends took it hard and Senior year was hard for her friends and classmated Bernie s friend KJ it was a devastating change to her I think she went elsewhere to school to much to handle there. I think
she s past all of that now surely after all this time.
And what really bothers are those who preach about "forgiveness" when it wasn't their child that was murdered. It's not their place to "forgive" her. The only ones that have the right to do that is the Costas family.
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This article mentions a party but wasn't it proven that there never was a party? That still confuses me. Also, if Kirsten had just smoked pot wouldn't the guy that drove her home, or the people at his house when she called her parents, have noticed that she was stoned?
K
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Do you have links? K
She won't come forward. She did her time (regardless of if she should have served more time, she did the time she was assigned) and I don't know that she owes it to anyone to come forward, except for the Costas. But honestly, what could she possibly do or say that would help them? And she has children,coming forward publicly would be so hard on them. Can you imagine how they would feel and what they would go through?
Honestly, I'm not making excuses for. I'm just looking at the situation realistically. The sad truth is that no one wins here. Nothing will ever erase the Costas' pain.
Agree, K. Lots of people calling on her to "come forward" about what happened that night. For what purpose? Would it ease the Kostas family's pain? Theirs is the only opinion that matters.
Anonymous, where have you read about the party? Where are you getting the info you have written? It is not in any article I have read.
Hi K,
"Also, if Kirsten had just smoked pot wouldn't the guy that drove her home, or the people at his house when she called her parents, have noticed that she was stoned?"
Yes, exactly. There was no pot. Bernadette said that she drove to the church on Kirsten's insistence so Kirsten could smoke pot. However, Kirsten explained to the guy that drove her home that she was waiting for people at the church car park that never showed up and her "friend" went weird.
Hi K,
" But honestly, what could she possibly do or say that would help them? And she has children,coming forward publicly would be so hard on them"
I'd doubt there is anything Bernadette could say that would help the Costas' considering she brutally murdered their oldest child and only daughter.
Why should she come forward?
It might provide some insight into that night which could prevent a similar tragic event from occurring, but it would also be difficult to believe that her account is 100% truthful. People can and will find out about her past by simply googling her name.
Anonymous, May 17, 1:12 PM ,
Who are the Kostas family?
" She wouldn't of cared if someone else went to prison like Nancy or. Joanna as long as it wasnt her"
If the FBI didn't take over, Nancy would probably still be blamed today, which is horrendous.
Seriously, if you're going to comment on the story at least get the names right. It's Costas, not Kostas.
She needs to own up to what she did. Changing her name and hiding her identity is not the way to go. IMO it means she has not accepted any responsibility for what she did and is still trying to make herself out to be the victim.
She and her family receive no sympathy from me period. She changed her name to hide what she did and to also hide from the Costas in case of a civil suit.
Yes. According to Bernadette.
Where did you find those details?
"I remember reading her saying there was no blood on her hand. Do you remember reading that, too? Anyhow, just the fact that she made it a point to say that leads me to believe that she had knowledge of someone cleaning up the car. Why else would she say it? We all know that it would be impossible for her to not transfer blood in & on the car"
It was stated that blood gushed from Kirsten's wounds. The following is a quote from Bernadette’s taped confession:
“There wasn't any blood on the seat or anything. It was weird. And there wasn't any on my hands. I don’t know why“
Kirsten was gushing blood, yet Bernadette stated there wasn't any blood on her hands and none on the car seat, which must have been a reference to the seat she left the knife on. The quote is ludicrous, of course. Her clothes and hands were most likely a bloody mess. The fact that she brought it up at all draws suspicion.
Hi K,
"Yes. According to Bernadette"
Who are you replying to?
It almost seems impossible that after such a brutal attack Kirsten was able to get away & run to a second house. She was running on pure adrenaline. It's fight or flight, she did both. Had she been stoned she would not have been able to get to the second house. Toxicology screen was most likely done in autopsy. If Bernadette's lawyer was thorough he would had brought up the positive toxicology. She wasn't stoned. Not that it would matter if she was.
Even though I do not know all of the facts, I am going to comment. In my opinion, there is no way Bernadette walked away blood free. There HAD to be a struggle. Kirsten was fighting for her life. There also had to be physical contact as Bernadette was pulling the knife out to issue another cut. If there were people who helped clean up blood, they need to be exposed. I bet Kirsten's family would want to know.
in theory you are 100% right. The problem is her history of lying about the incident. Her accounts of that night are dripping with inaccuracies. If her account stays the same most people would not believe her. If her account differs I don't know that many would believe her. Our best bet in understanding her mindset would be to read any psychological evaluation that was done. And I don't know that she was ever evaluated.
I'd like to believe that wouldn't be the case. But it could have played out that way
The story about the knife being in the car because her sister cut veggies with it.
I honestly think most of the family if not all of the family knew. Maybe not all of them knew that night but I bet within a few days they knew. There is just no way Bernadette was mature enough to pull this murder off, clean it up and come up with an alibi. I still do not understand why someone would help their family member try to get away with murder.
Hi K,
"It almost seems impossible that after such a brutal attack Kirsten was able to get away & run to a second house. She was running on pure adrenaline. It's fight or flight, she did both. Had she been stoned she would not have been able to get to the second house. Toxicology screen was most likely done in autopsy"
What a strong determined girl she was. No, she wasn't stoned. If there was pot, it was brought by Bernadette. Perhaps she tried to light up and offered Kirsten some, but Kirsten wasn't interested. Bernadette then probably got frustrated and confessed her feelings of admiration for Kirsten. If it was Kirsten's pot, why would she leave it behind in Bernadette's car?
I read in newspaper clippings that Bernadette's lawyer had some witnesses who allegedly saw Kirsten snort cocaine at a party. I don't know whether or not she did, of course. However, it struck me as odd that someone who wasn't interested in pot (according to her friend), would be interested in a harder drug like cocaine. I just got the impression it was yet another attempt to tarnish her reputation.
"The story about the knife being in the car because her sister cut veggies with it"
What a ridiculous far-fetched implausible story. As I wrote in a previous comment: how did she tell that absurd story on the stand with a straight face.
Hi Kmaham,
"I honestly think most of the family if not all of the family knew"
I think the sister with the ridiculous knife story certainly knew. Who keeps a 15/18 inch knife jammed between the car seats to cut vegetables? WTH was that nonsense not challenged in court?
"There is just no way Bernadette was mature enough to pull this murder off, clean it up and come up with an alibi"
I agree. It looks like she had help. I've said this a couple of times, but her cleaning the car possibly late at night should have and would have aroused suspicion. From the interviews I have read, I don't understand how her friends didn't consider that Bernadette could have been the murderer from the clear description, the pinto and even the red sweats they were aware of. I don't get that at all.
The knife would have been covered with blood. Bernadette claimed to have washed it and put it "back" in the drawer.
After frantically stabbing Kirsten I can't imagine her being meticulous enough to place it neatly so as not to transfer blood in the car. If I were in a mad rush to leave the scene of a horrific murder I would jump in the front seat and probably throw it on the passenger seat or floor of the car and speed off.
Quite frankly she is full of shit. There had to be blood SOMEWHERE in that car from the knife itself.
It's impossible. Heck, it's impossible to slice fruit without getting fruit juice on the knife & the surface you're cutting. If it's not possible with an orange, it's not possible with a human. Sorry if my comparison seems crude, that's not how I meant it
I highly doubt she ever snorted cocaine. She was a 15 year old athletic, preppy girl in a small upperclass community. And if I'm wrong & she was experimenting with drugs (I'm 97% sure she wasn't) it had nothing to do with what happened.
I can see her running to the car and throwing the knife on the front seat. Bernadette had to have been in full panic mode. How she calmed down in that short period of time is amazing to me. I would think most teenagers would break down when they saw their mother. As far as drugs, I do not buy that. Kirsten would not have been dumb enough to do that with someone she was not close with. No way would she have taken a chance of maybe Bernadette spreading it around.
Hi Leslie,
Due to the gruesome injuries inflicted on Kirsten, it's ridiculously absurd to state that the knife had no blood, or there was no blood on Bernadette. It's infuriating that this wasn't challenged in court. Before she rushed home after the crime scene, she threw the knife onto the backseat in the car.
“Quite frankly she is full of shit. There had to be blood SOMEWHERE in that car from the knife itself”
Yes, she is. Of course she had blood on her hands. The blood would have transferred to the outside handle of the car door, the car door handle inside the car, steering wheel, stick shift, indicators (blinkers), the blood on her clothes would have stained the car seat, blood on shoes would stain the car floor, bloody knife would have stained the back seat. I'm sure you or someone else can think of other places in the car that blood most likely transferred onto.
Hi K. It’s not crude. You are making a good point.
I agree. It looks like it was an attempt to tarnish her reputation. How abhorrent of that lawyer. Not only were her poor parents put through hell when Bernadette brutally murdered their oldest child and only daughter, but they had to listen to crap like that in the court room. Despicable.
" Bernadette had to have been in full panic mode. How she calmed down in that short period of time is amazing to me. I would think most teenagers would break down when they saw their mother"
From what I have read, Bernadette appears to have been abnormally detached and nonchalant about it all. She is then suggested to have taken a nice walk with her mother and dog and her mother didn't notice anything different about her. However, that may not be the case at all. We are only going by Bernadette's account which someone stated above: "is dripping with inaccuracies".
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The girl (Kirsten) on the porch said she had been waiting in the church parking lot for “some people who never showed up,” and then “my friend went weird on me.” She asked to come in and use the telephone to call home. The girl “seemed somewhat upset but not terrified,” Mrs Arnold recalled.
I wanted to explain, you know, because she kept going, “You're weird, “and I wanted to explain that I wasn't (Bernadette/Jeannette)
Purple Haze- thanks for sending me the Rolling Stone article. One thing I wanted to say is I am amazed that Kirsten did not mention Bernadette's name to the man taking her home.
Hi Kmaham. You're welcome. I was amazed, too. She must have just viewed Bernadette as nothing more than harmless, pathetic and desperate. Little did she know how dangerous she was.
What did you think of the article? I thought it was extremely scathing and unfairly critical of Kirsten.
Not only did Randall Sullivan ruin Kirsten Costas' reputation, but he made money from ruining her reputation with the 'death of a cheerleader' movie. I wonder if Bernadette made any money from that movie?? May Kirsten Costas rest in peace.
Kirsten's neigbor:
A murder this heinous is not something anyone just "forgives and forgets", least of all my family. I was there that night. I saw Kirsten's blood squirting all over my father as she struggled to breathe. She knew she was dying and the horror on her face as she bled out before us was something none of us will ever forget.
You may have served your time under the law but it will NOT be forgotten. The grotesque, premeditated nature of the savage murder you perpetrated demand that this follow you for the rest of your life.
Purple Haze- the article was really interesting. However, it did make me mad at times. In fact, several times. It made poor Kirsten look like one mean bitch. If Kirsten was that bad, why was she so popular? Why was Bernadette so obsessed with her? Regardless of how mean she was OR wasn't, she did not deserve to die. Her strength and will to live left me speechless. Knowing that she was still mobile after being stabbed repeatedly reassures my conclusion that Bernadette and her clothes had blood on them.
We bought a boneless pork loin the other day at Sam's. I was slicing it into pork chops and left some for a pork roast. When I was finished I could not help but notice the blood on the knife. I thought about Kirsten and once again I thought there had to have been blood on it that she brought back to the car. I rinsed the knife before putting it in the dishwasher. It still had some blood on it. I thought about Bernadette washing the knife. I keep going back to her age and not thinking things out. I can't imagine it being too clean. Another thing is the car. For the witness to have said the car had dents was interesting. If they could see that in the dark, the dents had to have been good size dents. You add that to the other clues and I would think they could have had this case locked up in a few days. Surely when they heard Bobbies, color of hair and make of car, that narrowed the search. Did the witness ever ID the car?
Hi Kmaham,
Yes, the article portrayed Kirsten terribly with no redeeming qualities at all. Randall Sullivan clearly wanted the reader to sympathise with poor, lost, “sweet”, self-conscious and unsure of herself Bernadette that was pushed to her limit by the mean, spiteful, alpha bitch that demeaned and deliberately targeted others for her own pleasure and amusement. However, there is no evidence of Kirsten bullying Bernadette. As you know, bullying was not the issue in this tragic case. From what I have read, Kirsten is still missed so she couldn't have been that bad if people still mourn her loss 32 years after her death.
“Why was Bernadette so obsessed with her”
Bernadette’s obsession may have had something to do with her being jealous over Kirsten's close friendship with Bernadette’s childhood friend. Kirsten also appears to have exhibited qualities Bernadette lacked such as charisma, confidence, poise….etc.
“Regardless of how mean she was OR wasn't, she did not deserve to die”
No, absolutely not. From what I have read, Kirsten was tame.
“Her strength and will to live left me speechless. Knowing that she was still mobile after being stabbed repeatedly reassures my conclusion that Bernadette and her clothes had blood on them”
Kirsten's determination and strength is admirable. I have no doubt Bernadette was covered in blood. As the quote above states: Kirsten was gushing blood. No way could she have walked away blood free from the horrendous injuries she inflicted Kirsten with. Anyway, why would she dispose of her clothes if there was no blood on them?
Hi Kmaham,
Absolutely there was blood in the car. The obvious places that would have had blood: car door handle (outside and inside), steering wheel, blinkers, stick shift, possibly the rear view mirror, seatbelt, the thing that the seatbelt clicks into, floor of car, the seat where the knife was placed.
“ I rinsed the knife before putting it in the dishwasher. It still had some blood on it. I thought about Bernadette washing the knife”
I also think it's possible there was traces of blood on the knife unless she used bleach. I know we have discussed this before, but my stomach turns whenever I think of the knife being used by others to prepare food after it was used to savagely murder Kirsten. How ghastly.
“ You add that to the other clues and I would think they could have had this case locked up in a few days. Surely when they heard Bobbies, color of hair and make of car that narrowed the search”
You would think so, wouldn't you? It boggles my mind that she got away with it for as long as she did, or that her friends didn't consider the possibility it might be her due to the clear description of her and the car. Bernadette portrayed herself as timid and sweet, so I suppose it was too unfathomable and incomprehensible for her friends, or the bobbie members to suspect someone they perceived as timid, weak and innocuous. Actually, one of Kirsten's friends suspected Bernadette before she was arrested. Also, Bernadette watched as Nancy and J were ostracized and harassed by their community. Nancy said that she took Catechism classes with Bernadette after the murder, so Bernadette would have noticed Nancy's distress, yet she continued to allow Nancy to be blamed. It was stated nothing was amiss with Bernadette. “She acted like she normally did”. “She was smiley”.
She seems like an evil person.
Here's her latest post. Makes me sick that she claims to religious.
"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight." ~ 1 Peter 3:3-4
Hi Susan,
“it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight”
A “gentle and quiet spirit” doesn't viciously attack someone from behind with a 15/18 inch knife. A “gentle and quiet spirit” doesn't continue to attack someone when they are defenceless and struggling on the ground in shock from the two foot wounds you savagely inflicted them with. A “gentle and quiet spirit” would not allow other people to be blamed for the monstrous murder she committed, particularly the two girls that were singled out and harassed and intimidated by the Orinda community. A “gentle spirit” doesn't nonchalantly participate in classroom discussions about who might have killed her murder victim in what looks like an attempt to influence others to suspect and blame innocent people. A “gentle spirit” doesn't flippantly refer to herself as a lifehacker when asked, “lifehacker?” “What does that mean to you?” which suggests she is not only remorseless about the vile murder she committed, but also amused. A “gentle spirit” does not set up a fake twitter account attempting to not only harass and stalk an innocent woman, but also spitefully and petulantly publish pictures of the innocent woman’s children. A “gentle spirit” doesn't go to a blog to insult others who support the innocent girl she brutally killed. A “gentle spirit” doesn't post reprehensible comments on other blogs in an attempt to vilify and besmirch the reputation of the girl she killed.
The psalms and platitudes she posts on her FB page are clearly disingenuous and a nauseatingly desperate attempt to portray herself as wholesome and benevolent.
"A gentle spirit" doesn't function normally after vilely murdering an innocent girl. "A gentle spirit" doesn't behave jovially after monstrously murdering an innocent girl.
*savagely inflicted on them.
A gentle spirit who was like a rubberband that snapped when stretched too far.
Hi Kmaham,
I don't think it was Kirsten that "stretched her too far". She blamed Kirsten for her own inadequacies. She should have concentrated her efforts on her strengths instead of trying to be something she wasn't and whinging about it like a child.
Bernadette was no gentle spirit. I agree with Purple Haze regarding her comments.
Bernadette was an unstable time bomb just waiting to explode. If it wasn't Kirsten it would have been someone else that set her off. Kirsten just had to be the unfortunate person she decided she wanted to be(not be like-she wanted to actually BE Kirsten).
Reminds me of a fatal attraction.
BTW-whomever is editing the info on Kirsten's wiki page-they will eventually edit it because it's just speculation to them about her new identity. I tried it several times and was told if I did it again I would be blocked from editing anything.
I have a feeling I know who it is-the same person who set up those FB pages.
Poor Kirsten. You know, there are always going to be popular and unpopular people. I was popular in Jr. High because I was a kook but in high school you just blend in. Never bothered me though. Growing up I tended to have one good friend-my Dad was in the navy and we moved a lot. Never cared if people liked or didn't like me. I found work environments to be more cliquey.
Purple Haze- I meant that Bernadette was the rubberband. Talking about rereading before you hit send.... I need to do that. Wasn't Bernadette supposed to be babysitting that night? I am not sure if I have asked this before so excuse me if I have. Did law enforcement check that out? I really need to go back and read all of the articles again.
Susan- you must of posted while I was posting. I was talking about Bernadette being the rubberband. I am always in a hurry and need to go back to see what I have typed. At least you can read my posts. I agree with the work place. It is much worse.
She was supposed to be babysitting. I don't think they checked her story out until much later.
I just check out the Wiki page. I had no clue that anyone could update the information. I could tell by the dates that it was recent that the updates occurred . I do not get why someone ho is not a relative would update the information. Also, I went back and read the post that was sent to me on my FB messenger . That person writing style is a lot like someone who posts on here . I wish I had that kind of time.
Not checking Bernadettes alibi was just one more blunder in this case.
Some of us believe people should know who she is now-that's why I tried to update it. I don't know why the other person is doing it. She seemed to get that way after I mentioned her here and was wondering why she was being so nice to a killer.
I think we are talking about the same person. She denied even writing anything nice on the FB page. All I said was I felt bad for her because she was basically ignored (as everyone was) when they commented on something. I said from the beginning that I had posted on her page. I had no clue to who Jeanette or Bernadette was at that point. Like I have said before, I use my real name. I would never go on a killer's page using my real name. When she sent me the private message saying she never posted on there anything but mean remarks. I went on JT's page and saw them. She has since removed them. I have no idea why she said that. I can't begin to understand crazy. However, I do like trying. There is so much about this case that I question. Too many obvious things that were overlooked. In a couple of weeks I will be off for the summer. I want to go back and reread everything about this case. I just breeze through a lot because of time. It is just the saddest case. The black and white picture of Kirsten makes me sad. She never had a fighting chance.
"Bernadette was an unstable time bomb just waiting to explode. If it wasn't Kirsten it would have been someone else that set her off. Kirsten just had to be the unfortunate person she decided she wanted to be(not be like-she wanted to actually BE Kirsten)".
Yes, I think she would have become unhinged at some point and would have unfortunately hurt someone if it wasn't Kirsten. I think she would have possibly hurt her childhood friend that was good friends with Kirsten.
"Reminds me of a fatal attraction"
Yes, she appears to have had such an unhealthy infatuation with Kirsten. The thought of how she portrayed herself in the car that night makes me recoil in discomfort. I can picture her wild eyed and rambling incoherently and Kirsten looking at her with a startled and bewildered WTF look on her face.
Purple Haze- I NEVER thought of her best friend being in danger. I bet you spot on with that statement . You would have thought her therapist would have identified some kind of irrational behavior.
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Hi Kmaham,
Thanks for clarifying your point.
Yes, Bernadette was supposed to be babysitting that night. Law enforcement didn't check it out until the FBI got involved. I'm astounded by their incompetence.
"I do not get why someone ho is not a relative would update the information"
A relative of whom? I didn't think Kirsten's relatives would update it or go near it all due to it being too painful. It doesn't bother me that someone has updated it. Why shouldn't her real name be revealed? I don't agree with or advocate vigilante justice, but I agree with the above quote by Kirsten's neighbor that a crime this horrific should follow Bernadette for the rest of her life.
I can't imagine going on her page and updating as a parent or relative. I am not much on Wiki. I agree about Bernadette's real name being revealed . Did you think I was talking about her? I absolutely think it should follow her. Especially how she is all over social media.
Hi Kmaham,
"I think we are talking about the same person. She denied even writing anything nice on the FB page.
Yes, it's the infamous "MC*
"I would never go on a killer's page using my real name"
I agree. That would be thoughtless and naive.
When she sent me the private message saying she never posted on there anything but mean remarks.
I don't know why she denied when they were there on the page for anyone to see.
"I can't begin to understand crazy. However, I do like trying"
I don't whether or not she is trolling or has some sort of mental illness. She has pretended to be different people such as Bernadette, or a friend of Bernadette's, or Bernadette's sister, or a friend of Kirsten's, or someone that went to Miramonte, or different American women...etc
"There is so much about this case that I question"
I agree. So many questions have not been answered. The investigation wasn't thorough at all.
"I want to go back and reread everything about this case"
I find the more I read about it, the sadder I feel for Kirsten and her family.It's horrendous the way she was treated after her murder. As long as the movie "Death of a Cheerleader" is available to watch, she will continue to be vilified.
"The black and white picture of Kirsten makes me sad. She never had a fighting chance"
Yes, it's very sad. No, she didn't have a chance when she was attacked from behind. All of this because she didn't want to befriend someone who had an unhealthy infatuation with her. As I said in a previous comment, Bernadette was not seeking a friendship with Kirsten for genuine reasons, she was using her.
Hi Kmaham,
"I can't imagine going on her page and updating as a parent or relative. I am not much on Wiki. I agree about Bernadette's real name being revealed . Did you think I was talking about her? I absolutely think it should follow her. Especially how she is all over social media"
No, it would be too gut wrenching. It's also understandable that one would be livid with rage even reading the name of the murderer. Yes, it should. The crime is too barbaric to forget.
Her lying about posting nice things and lying about it proves she knew about the case. She also told me her friend's father was one of the people who investigated. If she would have owned it, I would have never thought a thing about it. I have no idea how people have the time to post under different names.
Hi Kmaham,
"She also told me her friend's father was one of the people who investigated"
Really? Oh dearie me.
What did she tell you? I suppose she gets a kick out of pretending to be different people. It goes too far if she pretends to be Bernadette or Bernadette's family member. It was pointed out to me by someone else that "MC" actually does know someone that not only went to Miramonte, but was also in the same class as Kirsten. She told me how she figured it out, but I can't reveal how on the blog.
I will send you an email.
"....She was a 15 year old athletic, preppy girl in a small upperclass community."
I can't let this comment slide.... MANY athletic, preppy upper class kids do drugs. Drug abuse is not confined to the ghettos and trailer parks. Just Google it if you don't believe me.
But even if Kirsten did do drugs, it wouldn't mean she was a bad person. Nor does it justify what happened to her. To even bring up her possible drug use in relation to the murder reeks of victim blaming.
I do not think anyone on here said she was doing drugs.
"....She was a 15 year old athletic, preppy girl in a small upperclass community."
I can't let this comment slide.... MANY athletic, preppy upper class kids do drugs. Drug abuse is not confined to the ghettos and trailer parks. Just Google it if you don't believe me.
But even if Kirsten did do drugs, it wouldn't mean she was a bad person. Nor does it justify what happened to her. To even bring up her possible drug use in relation to the murder reeks of victim blaming.
Anonymous,
Of course drugs were/are used by different social classes. No one wrote that Kirsten would be a bad person if she took drugs. I couldn't care less if she experimented or not. Her family and friends were shocked when Bernadette stated Kirsten smoked pot the night she killed her, so I thought it unlikely she would do a harder drug like cocaine if it was suggested she wasn't interested in pot.
"To even bring up her possible drug use in relation to the murder reeks of victim blaming"
I don't know whether or not you are trolling, or being serious. Bernadette's lawyer brought up Kirsten's alleged drug use at her trial and I wrote I thought it was another attempt to tarnish her reputation.
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I smoked pot when I was in high school in the late 70's as did a lot of the preppy, athletic types. The only difference between them and the stoners(burnouts as we called them) is that they had images to uphold. Yet everyone knew they smoked pot and did drugs so it wouldn't be a surprise if Kirsten did too. No judging-it wasn't a big thing back then. But parents of these type of students are in denial if they believe their kid ain't doing it.
Curious as to why people make such a big deal out of it. And if she did it's still no reason to kill her. Bernie, on the other hand, would have smoked it to fit in and be accepted because that was her personality.
Hi Susan,
"Curious as to why people make such a big deal out of it. And if she did it's still no reason to kill her. Bernie, on the other hand, would have smoked it to fit in and be accepted because that was her personality"
Have I given the impression that I think it's a big deal? Of course it doesn't matter if Kirsten did or not.
"And if she die it's still no reason to kill her"
Did I give that impression? No, it is certainly not a reason to kill her. My point was that Bernadette's lawyer brought up Kirsten's alleged cocaine snorting at the trial in an attempt to tarnish Kirsten's reputation.
I think if there was pot that night, it was brought by Bernadette in a futile attempt to "impress" Kirsten.
My comments weren't directed towards you Purple. Sorry if you thought they were. You and I are basically on the same page when it comes to this. My comment was just an in general comment towards her lawyer who wanted to make it a big thing that Kirsten possibly smoked pot.
I didn't know that he had bought up the coke stuff during the trial. It seems to me that is like saying she was a bad person who did drugs so Bernie was justified.
And very good point about who really did have the pot if there was any. Like I said, Bernie would have done anything to be accepted.
"I find the more I read about it, the sadder I feel for Kirsten and her family.It's horrendous the way she was treated after her murder. As long as the movie "Death of a Cheerleader" is available to watch, she will continue to be vilified."
But on the flip side most people would not have known about this case if it wasn't for the movie.
And remember, it was from an article that is basically told from Bernie's point of view and that really astounds me. It only further goes to show how she has NEVER accepted her responsibility in the crime and sees herself as the "victim" when we all know she isn't.
The movie is not fair to Kirsten at all. Not even the casting of the two main characters. I am only going by what I have read since seeing the movie. I feel like their characters should have been flip flopped . In my opinion, most people would not have looked the movie up after watching it. They would not have checked to see what their real names were. When this movie was released, did we even have the Internet? Not fair is that the movie was largely based on Bernadette's side of the story....or so it seems. Sad also, is how trials do victim bash.
The movie was made in 1994. So the internet was only a few years away. I do think a lot of people who saw the movie were curious as to who the real people are. There are a lot of people who post on Traci's blog-she is the one that had the info about who she is now but decided not to post it because she has been a law abiding citizen since then. And because of her little hints and such people were digging on the internet trying to find out who she is. And in the process names got thrown around-names of innocent people who probably were harassed. She should have just posted her name and saved innocent people from being accused of being her.
Hi Susan,
The lawyer brought up kirsten's alleged coke use to corroborate Bernadette's fallacious story that Kirsten allegedly smoked pot. It also appears to have been an attempt to besmirch Kirsten's reputation.
"But on the flip side most people would not have known about this case if it wasn't for the movie"
What's the point, though. The movie is too one-sided in an attempt to elicit sympathy for the killer and vilify the victim. How nauseating and deplorable that some people sympathize with a killer that brutally murdered someone else.
People also justify their support for Bernadette by suggesting that Kirsten bullied Bernadette and pushed her to kill her, which isn't true. I feel sympathy for those who are bullied, but this wasn't the case. How can one justify murder over alleged bullying?
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Hi Susan,
I've read that woman's blog. I found it disappointing - not because she wouldn't reveal Bernadette's real name, but because her articles don't appear to be great or well researched. She identifies as some sort of reporter and researcher, but her blog doesn't reflect that, imo.
There is no way to justify Kirsten being murdered.
Hi Kmaham,
If the characters switched and tall Tori was in a crazed state, stalking and lunching at petite Kelli Martin with a large knife and stabbing her when she was screaming and defenceless on the ground, the murder scene would have been much more horrific. It should have been consistent with what was reported to have really happened.
In my mind, that is the way it should have been. I am just going by pictures of both girls. It wasn't a fair fight all the way around.
Hi Kmaham,
I just don't understand why Randall Sullivan - a grown man - deliberately damaged a murdered teenage girl's reputation. Did Bernadette tell him that she was a poor defenceless victim that tried oh so hard to fit in, but the bad popular girl never liked her and it made her feel so, so sad, so Bernadette killed her when her friendship attempt was rejected and her unusual behavior was rightfully called odd.
It also gives the impression that Randall was badly bullied and he projected his bullying experiences onto Kirsten, even though she didn't bully Bernadette.
Purple Haze- you would think Randall Sullivan would have interviewed people from both sides. To take Bernadette's word only to make a movie is opening yourself up for a lawsuit.
Everything about the movie is one sided.
Hi Kmaham,
He said he identified with Bernadette, so he had no intention of being objective. His purpose was to paint Bernadette who viciously killed Kirsten in a sympathetic light....and he did. He made money from it too. I'm sure he was quite pleased with himself.
Purple Haze- I wonder how he sleeps at night. No way would I be able to. Oh yes, I have a conscience.
Hi Kmaham.
I agree. I have conversed with someone who has met Bernadette and she is convinced that Bernadette is remorseful and thinks about her crime often.
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"lunging at Kelli Martin/Kirsten, not "lunching". It's late where I am and I'm tired, lol.
Purple Haze- I might agree with her being remorseful if she would not have been all over social media acting like she has. If she would have gone away and lived her life. She is not remorseful.
I am on the east coast. It is 7:30. I get up at 3am so I get being tired.
Hi Kmaham,
I agree. However, the individual I conversed with doesn't believe it's Bernadette that is behind the FB and the blog. She thinks it's someone doing it on her behalf.
"I am on the east coast. It is 7:30. I get up at 3am so I get being tired"
You'd best get your ass to bed then.
I'm in a different country in a different time zone.
My ass is in bed now! Hope you are in bed as well!
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OT but did you guys read that Casey Anthony supposedly confessed to the defense attorney that she did kill her daughter.
I agree with K-she is not remorseful.
The person that claims to have met Bernie-I wonder if it is just another person making up shit. I highly doubt Kirsten's murder is open for discussion as far as Bernie is concerned since she tries so much to disassociate herself from it with the various profiles claiming to be in Oregon.
As for Traci's blog, that was were I got the info about the real case. Not very well written though.
And I want to add that I have read comments from a lot of people who saw the movie and who DID look up on the internet the real story and think Bernie is not the victim after reading the real story. This isn't the only place that there has been discussions about this crime.
Susan- I did read yesterday about Casey Anthony. Another sick person. Also, I am sure hundreds of people looked up the movie on the Internet. I was talking about when it was released. This is the only place I personally have posted. I found it by accident when I questioned JT's Facebook blog and googled JT not Bernadette. I am sure there are many places that this case is discussed.
I am not sure my post made sense. I have only had one cup of coffee. As far as the people who DID look up the real story and think Bernadette is not the victim.... Not everyone looks up a movie after they see it. Those are the people who may or may not think Kirsten was to blame AFTER seeing the movie. I talked to a lot of people I know about this case since stumbling on the truth. Some had seen the movie, many had not. Not one person looked it up. Not one person knew any real names of the people involved. They knew the movie by Tori Spelling and Kelly Martin.
Susan- I forgot to add that I agree with you about the person who claims to have talked to Bernadette. I bet B stops anyone who tries to bring it up.
Hi Susan,
No, I didn't read about Casey, but it wouldn't surprise me. What a shame she was set free.
I don't particularly believe she is remorseful either and if she was, she would get no kudos from me. I was just giving you the opinion of someone else that knows her. I was initially sceptical about the individual knowing Bernadette, but she proved herself to be genuine and I can't discuss how on this blog.
I found Traci's blog very disappointing. From what I have read, she didn't come across as objective.
Susan, Kmaham,
I know there are other blogs that discuss this case. I've read plenty of comments that support the murderer. I suppose it's because they appear to believe that the Tori Spelling character was an accurate depiction of Kirsten's character and the pathetic Kelli Martin character closely modelled Bernadette's timid desperate personality.
Also, the owner of a blog that disuses Bernadette and Kirsten stated that she believed that the movie was an accurate portrayal of the characters, which is only going to reinforce the negative view some people have of Kirsten.
I think people who believe it is the actual portrayal are judging it on what they knew in school. My sister was the victim of bullying through out most of her school years and she finally dropped when she was 16. Later got her GED. I think she would probably side with Bernie on this on the bullying claims because those that bullied her were the types of student that Kirsten was. I do think Kirsten was a bully to some extent because from my own experience the popular kids always looked down their nose at the unpopular ones and made fun of them. It's just how it is.
But it still doesn't excuse Bernie murdering her.
There is so much I could write about the subject of bullying. I am afraid it would become a dissertation. I will just say it is horrible for kids and their parents.
Hi Susan,
I'm sorry your sister went through that. Kirsten didn't bully Bernadette. Perhaps we have different views on what constitutes as bullying, but I don't agree that she was "a bully to some extent". I'm not attempting to portray her as an angel because no teenage girls, no matter what clique they are in, are angels, but I think at the very worst she was bitchy to some people. What teenage girl isn't bitchy? Kirsten's behavior was so tame in comparison to people I knew in different cliques when I was a teen.
I was friends with people in different groups in High School and some of my best friends were popular and they didn't seek out unpopular girls to make fun of.
"But it still doesn't excuse Bernie murdering her"
No, it doesn't. Just look at it from Kirsten's perspective. Kirsten's best friend's childhood friend that she didn't have much interaction with rang Kirsten's mother about a fictitious bobbies dinner, lured Kirsten out of her house under the pretence of going to the non existent bobbies dinner, drove Kirsten to an empty car-park, told her there was no bobbies dinner and confessed her feelings of admiration for her. How would you have reacted to that when you were a teen? I would have found that very disturbing. It's understandable that Kirsten would have felt astonishment and bewilderment at Bernadette's strange behavior and fleed Bernadette's car. It absolutely did not warrant a murderous response.
Kirsten told the man that brought her home that she was waiting for people that never showed up. Bernadette told Kirsten a lot of lies to get her alone, so it's understandable why Kirsten was angry and is alleged to have interpreted Bernadette's behavior as something sexual.
Anyway, if Kirsten thought Bernadette was so beneath her, why would she get in Bernadette's car?
Hi Kmaham,
"I will just say it is horrible for kids and their parents"
Yes, it is. I'm sorry if you had negative experiences.
Kmaham,
Did you happen to look at the other blog and see the indiviudal?
Purple Haze- my experience was not as bad as some. Yes, it hurts but it wasn't enough for me to leave school. There are so many different levels of bullying. I have worked with kids for over 30 years. The top of the social ladder, I call the "Lilly Pulitzer " group. These girls have many Lilly dresses in their closets along with Jack Rogers sandles. All of the parents have been friends for years and these kids have known each other since birth. It is very hard to move into this group. An exception would be if someone moved into the neighborhood from another state. You would have to have "the look" to get in. The second group are the ones who do not have "the look". Their parents have money but they refuse to buy the Lilly dresses. These girls are in band or play sports. They do not live in the same neighborhood as the Lilly girls. However, they live in very nice houses in nice neighborhoods. They all get along just fine. There are many other groups but those are the two like Kirsten and Bernadette's. I feel like a lot of times, these friendships start through the parents. From a young age, these kids are grouped by neighborhoods, pre-schools, sports, etc. at least the first 2 groups. I have lived my whole life in this area and have seen this pattern my whole life. I was lucky because I was friends with everyone. Where I was bullied was by a group of boys that called me and several others names. They would make fun of every flaw that some people had. After a while I used humor to shake it off. They ended up my friends. I found
Out they were just a bunch of insecure boys. I have a great sense of humor and it worked in my favor. I never once even thought about killing anyone. I had several close friends that I was close to. We all did things with other groups. I have seen the same pattern continue with my kids and now grandchildren. Not only those related to me but all of the hundreds of kids I have worked with. What I have learned is kids are not born snobs. They are raised by snobs. They do not have to be in the Lilly group to be a snob. Anyone can be a snob. I have met people who were like Bernadette. They were needy. There was always something about them that you could not put your finger on. I was nice to them but kept my distance. I still do even as an adult. That may have been what Kirsten was thinking about Bernadette. We will never know. Sorry that this is rambling at its best.
Purple Haze- I did read it. I agree with you 100%!
Hi Kmaham,
You didn't “ramble”
Yes, there are different levels bullying. Also different personalities have different levels of sensitivity. However, I still think Kirsten was very tame.
“They do not have to be in the Lilly group to be a snob. Anyone can be a snob”
Absolutely. Arrogant people who think they are better than others come in all shapes, sizes, colours and social classes.
Yes, it's unfortunate that some parents appear to instil a snobbish “us vs them” mentality in their kids from a young age. I'm sorry the group of boys gave you a hard time. Yes, those that bully others are insecure. A person who is content with themselves would never put another person down for their own amusement. I'm glad you were able to use humor to “shake it off”. It's unfortunate, but self-consciousness attracts negative attention. To use Bernadette as an example: if an individual views themselves as timid, shy, self-conscious, anxious or "not good enough", usually people will treat you accordingly.
“I have met people who were like Bernadette. They were needy. There was always something about them that you could not put your finger on”
Neediness and desperation repels people quicker than the smell of a skunk.
“That may have been what Kirsten was thinking about Bernadette”
I think so. Phoning Kirsten's house and lying about the bobbies dinner in order to get Kirsten alone “to get to know her” (Bernadette's words from her taped confession) reeks of a desperate needy person. It was stated that Bernadette would try drugs just to fit in, so she was indeed a desperate individual. I still don't feel sorry for her. Apparently, she was a good student and writer, so it's a shame she didn't focus on her strengths.
"Purple Haze- I did read it. I agree with you 100%!"
She's such a silly individual.
FFS, I don't proof read comments very often and I should. I meant she "fled" Bernadette's car, not "fleed".
Purple Haze- I do not for one second believe Kirsten was a bully. I really believe Bernadette was upset over the outfit she had to wear when she went skiing. I think that was a big part of it. She did not feel like she was good enough and the neediness kicked in. After that she became desperate. That was the night she killed Kirsten. Whatever that was said in that car was enough to make Kirsten nervous enough to get out of the car. It must of been uncomfortable for Kirsten to talk about to the man who drove her home. Even though I wish Kirsten would have said Bernadette's name, it showed me that she was a nice girl. She had no idea that Bernadette was going to kill her. I think she thought Bernadette was troubled and did not want to spread stuff about her. I also do not feel bad for Bernadette.
It's interesting how everyone is giving opinions about a situation that none of us were witness to. I never take stock in those who come here claiming to have been there and known both girls. It's the internet-people can claim to be whomever they want to be.
As for different levels of bullying, I don't buy that either. Bullying is bullying PERIOD-please don't make excuses for those who do.
The bottom line is this: none of us were there to witness what actually happened. But growing up in that time period before bullies were not taken to task for their behavior I still stand by my comments that Kirsten probably was a bully to some extent. Her comment about the ski outfit Bernie had was the actions of someone who DID bully on a regular basis those she perceived as uncool and also of someone who liked the attention she received when she did so. Back then it was "cool" or "okay" to pick on those who were perceived as "uncool". I don't think that all of the stuff in the movie was a figment of Bern's imagination.
It's like someone starting a blog to out someone and using a random picture on the internet which leads to that person in the picture being bullied by people on Bern's side. Not cool at all. Which reminds-where has the person who started this blog been? No new posts since the early part of the year.
We can debate this issue till the cows come home and be outraged over her sentence. The fact is she was tried as a juvenile and sentenced according to one. We might not agree with it but it's not going to change the facts and the outcome of the case. She has to live with what she did.
If if there is a hell I hope she has a one way ticket.
It is interesting that you make the statement that bullying is bullying period. Then you said Kirsten was probably a bully to some extent. Which is it?
Also, Susan, if you were talking about me making excuses for anyone who is a bully, you are wrong. I thought people had the right to discuss this case and throw around different scenarios. I believe there ARE different levels of being bullied. Mine was being made fun of by a few jerk boys. Some people are bullied with threats and violence. I call that different levels of being bullied. Yes, they all hurt but, they still are different.
Hi Susan, I hope you don’t get offended by what I have written. There is nothing wrong with a difference in opinions and I respect that you view things differently.
It's interesting how everyone is giving opinions about a situation that none of us were witness to.
Isn't that the point of this blog and other blogs?
As for different levels of bullying, I don't buy that either. Bullying is bullying PERIOD-please don't make excuses for those who do.
We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not making excuses for anyone. Do you think Kirsten bullied Bernadette? Bernadette only recounted one incident and that was the infamous ski comment. I still don’t know what Kirsten is alleged to have said to Bernadette about her skis. Was it “nice skis, Bernadette”, “Did you get your skis in K-mart”, or “have your skis come out of retirement?” I don’t agree with Kirsten for making a comment about Bernadette’s skis, but teenagers – all teenagers- are not known for their social graces. Bernadette stated that she felt self- conscious about her skis and unfortunately when you are a teenager, self-consciousness attracts negative attention like blood to a shark. It’s a shame that she didn't have a couple of retorts ready to use in case someone provoked her.
“The bottom line is this: none of us were there to witness what actually happened”
No, we don't. However, going from Bernadette’s account, it is not difficult to figure out what happened.
“Her comment about the ski outfit Bernie had was the actions of someone who DID bully on a regular basis those she perceived as uncool”
I don't agree with what Kirsten supposedly did, but that doesn’t mean that she was a bully who bullied people on a regular basis. Did you ever say anything mean to anyone when you were a teenager? If so, does that mean that you were a bully?
“and also of someone who liked the attention she received when she did so”
You said above that none of us were there to witness what happened and that extends to how Kirsten supposedly behaved in school, so how do you know that she regularly bullied people and “liked the attention she received when she did so”?
“I don't think that all of the stuff in the movie was a figment of Bern's imagination”
Apart from the ski comment, what stuff in the movie?
“It's like someone starting a blog to out someone and using a random picture on the internet which leads to that person in the picture being bullied by people on Bern's side. Not cool at all. Which reminds-where has the person who started this blog been? No new posts since the early part of the year”
Are you talking about the Lori Slocum blog? I don't know. No posts since March.
“We can debate this issue till the cows come home and be outraged over her sentence. The fact is she was tried as a juvenile and sentenced according to one.”
This isn't just a blog that is outraged over her sentence. It is a blog that supports Kirsten. The questions this case also raises: What induced Bernadette’s murderous rage? Did she exhibit signs of being dangerous and unhinged before the murder? Can analyzing this crime help people to detect dangerous signs in others?
“We might not agree with it but it's not going to change the facts and the outcome of the case. She has to live with what she did”
That goes without saying. If she could detach herself from the crime then, it's a possibility that she can detach herself from it now and live quite peacefully with what she did.
“If there is a hell I hope she has a one way ticket”
She doesn't think so. She thinks that murder is on par with lesser sins like lying and stealing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholicism views murder is a mortal sin and stealing or lying are viewed as venial sins, so I don't know how she came to that conclusion.
All the best.
One one more thing I wanted to say. I know Bernadette was sentenced as a juvenile. The problem I have with that is this. If it would have been a fair fight with 2 people who had a disagreement and one killed the other, I would have been ok with that. When you take all of the facts of the case and really look at them, in my opinion it looks like premeditation. She obviously had "issues" to have been getting some sort of help. Now, she could have gotten out and proved everyone wrong. Live quietly, show remorse, etc. That is not what has happened. With what little but I know about this case, it seems to me she needed extra time with either jail or some sort of help. She could be a ticking time bomb right now. Once again, my opinion.
Hi Kmaham,
"If it would have been a fair fight with 2 people who had a disagreement and one killed the other, I would have been ok with that"
Do you mean if it was a fair fight between Kirsten and Bernadette?
It really does appear to have been premeditated. Bernadette had a 15/18 knife shoved between the front car seats, Bernadette phoned the house of a person who she believed didn't like her to deceive her into going to a fictitious sorority initiation dinner, Bernadette drove kirsten to an empty car-park, she told Kirsten there was no bobbies dinner and appears to have confessed her feelings of admiration to Kirsten.
How did the lie about Bernadette taking Kirsten to a party get started? I know it's in the movie, but I can't recall if I read about it in an article. I read that Kirsten was told by friends that they didn't hear anything about a sorority dinner. Wouldn't Bernadette's very casual clothing have aroused suspicion in Kirsten before setting off for the "initiation dinner". So may questions.
Yes, Bernadette's father said she was getting counselling due to "feelings of despondency"
"She could be a ticking time bomb right now"
I could never trust her. What exactly induced her murderous rage and how could she stop that from happening again. Maybe she now knows the signs or "triggers" that led to Kirsten's murder. I would still never trust her, though.
Purple Haze- I was talking about 2 people in general. Two people who had a falling out which led to a fight. One was killed. That I could understand a short sentence. Premeditation....no! I agree about the trust thing. I would hope she has learned coping skills.
Hi Kmaham,
If she was able to detach herself and tell herself that the murder she committed "didn't seem real", that suggests that she was in denial. If she is in denial, I'd doubt she got sufficient help. We will never know. I initially thought some of the disgusting comments written on this blog couldn't be her because she wouldn't be that stupid, but I'm not so sure. If they were her, they certainly don't suggest that she has "coping skills" to get so rattled by a blog.
Purple Haze- she is in denial for sure. To be that disconnected is pretty scary. It must be how she copes with day by day living. Just keeping up with all of her social media must be exhausting. I can imagine when someone posts something mean, it brings it all back up. That is why I do not get why she keeps it up.
Susan you have very think skin to be offended by the comments.
Purple Haze- I think desperation played a big part of the murder. And, maybe panic.
Hi Kmaham,
There was a lot more going on than "panic" and "desperation". A "normal" person wouldn't react that way in similar circumstances. Excuse me for repeating myself, but look at it from Kirsten's perspective.
Kirsten's best friend's childhood friend (Bernadette) that was stated to not have had much interaction with Kirsten, rang Kirsten's mother about a fictitious bobbies dinner, lured Kirsten out of her house under the pretence of going to the non-existent bobbies dinner, drove Kirsten to an empty car-park, told her there was no bobbies dinner and appears to have confessed her feelings of admiration for her. Kirsten understandably appears to have been bewildered, unnerved and furious with Bernadette's lies and desperate behaviour to get her alone. I, too, would have found Bernadette's behaviour disconcerting. Kirsten was understandably alarmed by Bernadette's eerie behavior, so she fled Bernadette's car. Bernadette couldn't accept that Kirsten possibly called her out on her strange behaviour, which Kirsten was perfectly justified in doing as Bernadette's behaviour was utterly bizarre and odd beyond comprehension. Bernadette then stalked Kirsten in her pinto and cowardly attacked Kirsten from behind with a 15/18 inch knife. She continued to attack a defenceless and screaming Kirsten on the ground inflicting her with wounds two feet long, which lacerated organs. I think if Kirsten didn't get away from Bernadette, Bernadette would have continued to stab her. The guy that drove Kirsten home stated that Bernadette was running after Kirsten when Kirsten ran to her neighbor’s house. Bernadette said that she was just "running in the direction of Kirsten". Bernadette then allowed others to be blamed for her crime, particularly Nancy and "J" who were ostracized and tortured by their community. People commenting on Bernadette’s behavior after her crime noticed nothing was amiss. She was "smiley" and "happy". She confessed because she knew the FBI were closing in on her. I wouldn't use panic and desperation to describe Bernadette and her monstrous behaviour. The words I would use to describe Bernadette and her behavior are insanity, absurdity, evil, contemptible, reprehensible, inexcusable, depraved……………… I could go on.
Just wondering; how was Bernadette able to get a nursing license? I understand that some crimes committed as a juvenile can be expunged from one's record; however, I find it difficult to believe that murder would be one of them. Not sure I would want my life in the hands of someone who took one. If this has already been addressed, I missed it, but does anyone know how she was able to get one?
Purple Haze- there were other things added to the panic and desperation. I think Bernadette said some things to Kirsten that if repeated would bring a whole new level of teasing from many people. She was desperate to stop Kirsten and she did not care how she did it. She must have known it would not go well, hence the knife, clothes and lies to get her to come. The panic and desperation came to play when Kirsten jumped out of the car. I don't think Bernadette had any idea that would happen. I still can't figure out why the man driving the car did not jump out to break it up. I agree with all of the words you used to describe Bernadette. I just added my 2 to the list. You see Bernadette knew the man was in the car. She had no idea if he would get out and try to stop her. She was so desperate to silence Kirsten that she ran after her to kill her before she was stopped.
Texan- I personally do not know the answer. I do agree with you. I am new to this case. Also, I wish the admin would start a new thread. It takes forever to scroll down to post.
Hi Texan,
Her records appear to have been sealed. As someone else stated, she didn't have to reveal that information because she was tried as a minor.
“Not sure I would want my life in the hands of someone who took one”
Scary, isn't it.
Hi Kmaham,
I think Bernadette possibly “panicked” because Kirsten thought she was a lesbian. As someone else stated, being a lesbian/gay was NOT accepted back then. I can understand why Kirsten came to that conclusion. Again, excuse me for repeating myself: Bernadette phoned Kirsten's house about a fictitious Bobbie's dinner in order to lure her Kirsten out of her house alone. Bernadette then drove Kirsten to an empty car-park at night and if Bernadette’s account of what happened is to be believed, she appears to have told Kirsten how much she admired her, which was misconstrued as something sexual. However, we will never know if that actually happened, or if Bernadette is lying about Kirsten calling her “that way”.
“She had no idea if he would get out and try to stop her”
That’s a good point.
“ She was so desperate to silence Kirsten that she ran after her to kill her before she was stopped”
Her behaviour was still insane. Even if Kirsten
thought Bernadette was a lesbian, it still does not justify killing someone over it and the average person would not react in that way.
“She must have known it would not go well, hence the knife, clothes and lies to get her to come”
Exactly. I'm sure she innately knew that things would not go the way she wanted, but she was too needy and desperate to abandon her futile plan that was doomed to failure.
Purple Haze- I agree that is was premeditated . She may have worked the planned scenario out in her head. The way she thought it would go. I do not think she counted on Kirsten getting out of the car. Another thing I thought of is Bernadette did not know who the man was that Kirsten was with. She may have thought Kirsten would have told the man her name. That would have been what I would have done. So, Bernadette had to wait around to see if the police were coming for her that night. If poor Kirsten would have just said Bernadette's name.
Hi Kmaham,
The fact that Kirsten did not talk about or make fun of Bernadette to the guy that drove her home doesn't exactly fit the "Kirsten was a bully bitch" narrative Bernadette and Randall Sullivan vehemently attempted to perpetuate. It portrays her to have been a nice, decent girl. However, it's a shame that she didn't mention Bernadette's name. It was stated that Bernadette's mother didn't notice anything unusual about Bernadette when they went for a walk. Bernadette was coolly detached to an eerie degree for someone who viciously murdered another human being and was anticipating the arrival of the police.
Purple Haze- GREAT point about Kirsten not saying Bernadette's name to the man. I have to keep remembering that this happened years ago. It was a much different world without all of these crime shows on TV. I do not put much stock in what Bernadette's mom said. Bernadette was the baby, not to mention the fact mom had other children and may have been tired by this point in her life. It was dark so her mom may not have noticed anything. I can imagine Bernadette having a flushed face, a nervous look on her face etc. She may have had some signs that something was wrong but mom could not tell. I feel like Bernadette could have been anxious. Not because of killing Kirsten but not knowing if her name was mentioned.
Wonder if there were any repercussions from any job she had once her identity got out? Perhaps the nursing community wasn't thrilled with the idea of having a murderer in their midst. I can see the possibility of objections from potential patients and/or their families.
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Texan,
I was told by someone else that Bernadette's nursing license is still active. Apparently, one can look it up.
I don't know about there being any repercussions.
Hi Kmaham,
You are right about not "putting too much stock into what Bernadette's mother said". Bernadette's parents were suggested to not be in tune with Bernadette, so it's probable that they were oblivious to obvious signs. They were also stated to have been older that other parents, so it's likely they were also "tired at that point in their lives".
Also, I agree with you about the mother not noticing anything awry about Bernadette because it was dark and late when they went for a walk. However, we will never know.
"Not because of killing Kirsten but not knowing if her name was mentioned"
I agree. She didn't give a s*** about killing Kirsten. She only cared about the possible consequences for HER, not that she heinously murdered Kirsten and took Kirsten away from her family and friends who loved her.
Purple Haze- even if Bernadette's mom noticed anything, she would have never said anything to the police. However, I think she was oblivious to Bernadette. It's not like Bernadette was crying or even upset. She had time while she was driving to calm down if she would have wanted to. She chased Kirsten down with knife in hand determined to kill her. That alone (in my mind) is premeditation. At any point during the ride, she could have turned the car around. She had time tI think about it. No, she followed Kirsten, chased her down and killed her. It shows her frame of mind when she disregarded the fact the man was there in his car.
Hi Kmaham,
Yes, I agree the mother would have been oblivious. It's scary how detached Bernadette was from the horrific crime she committed. Whilst stabbing Kirsten, Bernadette would have seen the pain and anguish on Kirsten's face, seen the fear and shock in Kirsten's eyes, listened to Kirsten scream in agony as she felt the knife rip through Kirsten's flesh, she would have smelled Kirsten's blood, Kirsten's blood would have gushed out all over her. It takes one hell of a cold bastard to commit a crime like that and go about her life like nothing happened. "I was very good at blocking it out" – Bernadette.
"No, she followed Kirsten, chased her down and killed her. It shows her frame of mind when she disregarded the fact the man was there in his car"
Damn, that is scary. She was going to try and kill her no matter what.
I'm not convinced that Kirsten referred to Bernadette as "that way". She could very well have lied about it so she could say that she was "provoked" and could then plea a crime of passion.
Purple Haze- how does one detach themself from something that horrendous . I think the rage in her by this time was out of control. She was focused on one thing and one thing only. Why else would she have carried the murder off with the man watching and not knowing what was said.
Hi Kmaham,
The depravity of her behavior is disturbing beyond words.
"I think the rage in her by this time was out of control"
I would truly never feel safe around someone like that who committed such a vile murder. Her very presence would freak me out.
"She was focused on one thing and one thing only. Why else would she have carried the murder off with the man watching and not knowing what was said"
Sorry to repeat myself, but for Bernadette to hold down Kirsten and continue to stab her whilst seeing the fear and shock in her eyes, seeing the anguish in her face and feeling the knife rip through her flesh whilst her screams of pain rang in Bernadette's ears, is the behavior of someone who is utterly insane or utterly evil.
Purple Haze- poor Kirsten ! The strength that Bernadette must of had added to the rage had to have been scary.
Hi Kmaham,
It's horrendous to think of the horror and pain Kirsten experienced. I was told by someone who has met Bernadette that Bernadette is at least 5'9 and I'm assuming because Kirsten was described as "petite" that she was about 5'1 or 5'2, which is a big enough difference in height between the two. Kirsten was described as skinny and Bernadette was described as "chunky", so Bernadette could easily overpower Kirsten and cowardly overpowered her when Kirsten's back was turned. I still think Bernadette would have continued to stab Kirsten if Kirsten didn't get away.
Purple Haze- I think she would have made sure Kirsten was dead for sure. She had the man watching her from the car and Kirsten had screamed . That must have scared her enough to bolt.
Hi Kmaham,
I don't think she was scared by Kirsten's screams. It was stated that both Kirsten and Bernadette were screaming.
Purple Haze- What a scary scene that must of been with both screaming.
Hi Kmaham,
It would have been horrific. Kirsten was screaming with pain, shock, fear and anguish. Bernadette was screaming in a murderous rage.
Purple Haze- I can't imagine that scene. I would bet Kirsten's parent were haunted by that thought for years.
Hi Kmaham,
I'm a very visual person, so if something like that happened to my loved one, it would always stay with me. I wish Kirsten's parents and brother the very best.
I agree! Too bad she didn't take that blade and slice her own throat!
I agree! Too bad she didn't take that blade and slice her own throat!
She would never have taken her own life. She said she felt like killing herself but she was afraid she would go to hell; yet taking the life of another is a sin considered to condemn you to hell. She made no sense at all.
People who commit suicide wouldn't go to hell, as it is a result of a disease (Major Depressive Disorder). But if hell existed, people who murder would definitely go there. Jeannette is stupid.
She will get her punishment when god decides.
She will answer for it either way when she dies, its up to God for. God is merciful. Bernadette has to live with it the rest of her life.
Apparently God can see everyone all the time. What if God is watching me undress? That upsets me. Stop looking at my boobs, God! You pervert!
Anonymous above you are a sick person, as disturbed as Bernadette, that wasn't funny at all.
No, Steph, it wasn't funny. I know you have read under another article why I wrote the above. Feigning offence and writing that you think I'm as disturbed as a murderer is ridiculous, over-reactive and another of your eye-rolling trolling attempts.
" Sad thing is we will never know the whole truth."
I agree. This story was the culmination of a perfect storm. Puzzle pieces are certainly missing and we'll never know what really happened in that car. Something has been left out.
I'm in the group who believe she may have made some sort of a genuine, maybe unconventional 'pass' at Kirsten during the dispute and this is what led to the "weird" description of what was going on. It would explain why Bernadette felt like she had to murder Kirsten. An accusation of being gay back then would've been a nightmare, especially in the environment they were in, and may have led to the point of no return.
I'm not entirely sold on that scenario myself but it would help explain how the situation played out once Kristen ran from the car. A major incident had to occur for a 15 year old girl to go knocking on doors to get a ride out of there.
"One thing I wanted to say is I am amazed that Kirsten did not mention Bernadette's name to the man taking her home."
She never comprehended the magnitude of the situation she was in. Throughout the whole story, you can see the runaway train fast approaching but Kristen never gets out of the way. By the time she does at the last minute(leaving the car), her fate is sealed.
I also agree with those who say if the knife isn't there or it somehow gets stuck between car seats, she gets murdered anyways, likely strangulation.
One more thing before bed..
Another interesting angle to this tragic story is the amount of time between school ending and the murder. This should've been a cooling off period for Bernadette. Kirsten is not a part of her daily existence. Out of sight, out of mind as they say yet that was not the case here.
It really does show the unhealthy level of interest she had in Kirsten.
I also realize its possible that there were situations that acted as stressors that we are unaware of.
Is it possible she stalked Kirsten at that cheerleading camp and witnessing Kirsten thriving in this setting helped send her over the edge?
There is so much rage in this murder. On the surface the few stab wounds may say otherwise but Kirsten's response is the only reason it stopped. If Kirsten doesn't attempt to flee, she likely gets stabbed dozens of times.
Like I said earlier, so many pieces of the puzzle are missing. I wish she would come clean on what really happened in the car before she dies. Been a few years since reading all the articles but if memory serves me correctly, they were in the parked car talking for 30 minutes. That is a LONG time to be in a tense situation and it was tense from the moment she arrived at Kirsten's house. More than likely it continued to build until reaching its apex when Kirsten feels she needs to flee. The act of Kirsten fleeing is very significant. Its not a natural act to flee into the unknown. Quite the opposite, especially for a vulnerable teen girl. The things that car could tell us...
At that point(the convo in the parked car), it has likely morphed into some sort of domestic dispute. Such situations are very nuanced, varying levels of intensity, etc. If we could ever find out what really transpired between the two girls in the car, it would answer almost everything although I would like to know what degree if any that stalking was involved in the overall story.
I would also like to know if Kirsten ever had a chance once leaving with Bernadette..a way out...if it all truly hinged on Kirsten's reaction to whatever Bernadette is really telling her, that is truly frightening.
I'd also like to know why Kirsten didn't detect the biggest red flag of all, finding out the bobbies party was a sham and THIS is who is behind it. Teens aren't known for their instincts but this should have knocked her BS detector off the charts.
I started reading one of the newer articles on the case, and this description is terrifying..
"Palmer said, “Rene [the neighbor] and Kirsten were really close.” However, the neighbor failed to respond when Costas signaled for help. “Rene heard banging on the door but she was home alone and thought Kirsten was at a Bobby’s meeting. She was too afraid to answer the door and only came out when she heard the ambulance,” Palmer said.
Costas was banging her fists on the door as Protti jumped out of the bushes and stabbed her with a butcher knife in a downward angle several times, puncturing her lungs."
Wow. Unreal. The loud banging before the attack indicates she knows she's in major trouble. If casually walking up to the neignbor's house because no one's home, there would be no sense of urgency in the knocking.
I remembered this scene differently, more as a blitz style attack and she didn't see it coming until it was already underway. She knows she's in danger, which is a complete 180 from what she had just told the driver mere minutes ago.
This part is interesting as well...
"“Kirsten went up to a door and asked for a ride home. Her exact words were: ‘My friend is acting weird and I’m really scared. Could you drive me home?'” Palmer said."
Such a simple statement that could encompass an almost infinite number of scenarios.
And this..
"Palmer attended the trial. She remembers Protti crying during questioning in the courtroom, with her head on the table, repeating “I couldn’t let her tell! I couldn’t let her tell! I couldn’t!”
Something shocking took place in that car. I don't believe the "Be my BFF and stop being mean to me" version of what went down. Its unfortunate that she gave such simple statements at the home and to the driver but I understand to a degree since they were strangers to her.
There's so much more to the story. Shame on the investigators for not digging deeper.
Now I'm really off to bed. Tomorrow I'm going to read some of the articles again to get a refresher on the case. Its still just as interesting today as it was years ago.
I was informed that Bernadette' husband agaryn recently found out all about her past, how true I don't know, but I heard he got an email about it, it's just hearsay, not actual facts. Shame if he does, that had to blow his world. It is sad if it's so.
Stephanie, it was more than just an email. You can't even correctly repeat information that was written clearly on this site.
Excellent points, Tracy B.
Bernadette's husband found out, well she should of been more specific with him when they met. She should of thought about all this before she stabbed Kirsten, allowed the blame to rest on 2 innocent girls, not even bat an eye on it.
Its unfortunate that DNA testing couldn't be done back then and its unlikely any sort of rape kit was done or various swabbing.
After reading even more on the case, I'm starting to wonder if some sort of assault or attempted assault took place in that car.
Bernadette felt that she had no way out of the situation. Its culmination had to be murder. If the dispute was only verbal and just Bernadette pouring her heart out to Kirsten, there is still some breathing room. Time to talk to Kirsten, bargain with her, etc. This was the era before social media so its not like the whole world was going to find out something terrible immediately. IF it became physical to any degree, that is a game changer.
I wish we could know exactly what happened in the car seconds before she fled Bernadette for safety.
Imagine you are Kirsten and this girl has made some sort of pass at you, verbal and/or physical. You have a negative reaction to this. You should be able to wiggle your way out of this uncomfortable situation. For starters, simply saying 'thanks, but no thanks' or promising her you'll never tell and you'll keep it between yourselves.
I'm not blaming the victim, by the way.
Another thing that complicates matters is we don't know the real personalities of the two girls. We don't know how they would react in certain situations. What we do know is that the victim was murdered mere minutes after fleeing her assailant. An extreme overreaction by Bernadette combined with her victim not realizing that a tragedy was unfolding.
This case is really bizarre.
Do you think Kirsten might have been sexually assaulted by Bernadette?
"Do you think Kirsten might have been sexually assaulted by Bernadette?"
Yes.
Something happened that painted Bernadette into a very small corner. In Bernadette's mind, she HAD to be permanently silenced. If a plan B existed, it was vetoed the moment Kirsten ran from the car.
Also take into consideration how much time elapsed in the car. Also take into consideration that it was probably even longer. That is a long time for the victim to sit in a car with a girl whom she doesn't like and has just told her a lie and created a huge ruse to get her there in the first place.
Nothing remotely good can possibly be transpiring in that car. Bernadette has her prey right where she wants her. Alone and vulnerable. She's also got her confused as she has no idea what bernadette has planned and even worse, that her own homicide is now unfolding.
She intentionally isolated Kirsten by taking her there and this would show that whatever she had planned for Kirsten, it was beyond just a verbal confrontation. A verbal exchange could have taken place in front of Kirsten's house. Hell, a fight could've easily broken out there as well. That wasn't what Bernadette had in mind.
We have no idea how much of an assault was underway before she fled. We know Kirsten wasn't naked...at least at the moment of fleeing the car. Its possible that the assault was barely underway when Kirsten got up the nerve to flee for help.
Its also possible that she had some sort of fetish and it had not yet veered into a real sexual assault yet.
Whatever it was, Kirsten felt that she had to flee. In the heat of the moment, she saw no other way out...which is another reason I believe it went beyond a verbal altercation. If its just words, one or both girls can back away from the brink. A 'moment of pause' can be reached.
Something else that is a reveal into the unknown chaos is Kirsten's handling of the situation in front of witnesses before her tragic murder.
First...her friend is "acting weird" and she is scared and needs a ride home. There is a genuine sense of urgency there. Kirsten literally needs a lifeline.
She gets it.
Then...once she feels she is safe, she starts minimizing whatever happened in front of a witness. While I don't expect her to pour her heart out to someone she barely knows, this 180 on Kirsten's part is interesting. Some rape victims are known to start minimizing the assault and to also start questioning what role if any they may have played in what happened.
When the driver notices that she is following them, Kirsten minimizes this as well. In her mind, whatever bernadette has done cannot be replicated at her home.
Then comes Kirsten's final(and fatal) mistake... She gets out of the car alone even though she has someone there to escort her to the door.
Once reaching the neigbor's door, she now realizes that this is an emergency and acts accordingly by beating on the door before getting stabbed.
What happens there is a continuation of what was transpiring in the car. Kirsten merely upset its flow by fleeing the car and temporarily getting away from Bernadette.
If what happened was only verbal, a verbal altercation would have likely continued when they arrived at Kirsten's. Instead, it was immediately physical. She didn't even bother taunting Kirsten before attacking her.
I also find it interesting how Bernadette attempted to bring drugs into the equation by saying she smoked dope. Whether one or both of them smoked dope is completely irrelevant to what happened. Bernadette was trying to create a false narrative..and it worked to a degree. Just the fact that people would attempt to say Kirsten didn't use drugs was playing into bernadette's hands. It helped keep everyones eyes off the elephant in the room...what really happened in that car.
On a previous page, someone brought up how unfortunate it was that Bernadette got all the breaks and everything that could possibly go wrong for Kirsten did. 100% truth.
Kirsten's main problem from the nanosecond things got underway at her house is that she didn't understand what she was dealing with. This was not a high school class where you can make jokes about someone to your friends. This was not a ski trip where you can tease someone about their crappy skis. Hanging with your friends and/or being amongst your clique is a comfort zone. There is safety in numbers.
Kirsten was upper middle class and even though she likely went on many trips and had some great experiences, she had led a very sheltered existence. So had Bernadette, but this had placed Kirsten at an immediate disadvantage.
Her mind wasn't capable of understanding what low depths her soon to be murderer was willing to go. Bernadette was waving red flags from the moment she showed up but Kirsten was unable to detect them.
I'm unsure if there's any way for Kirsten to even survive the ordeal. Bernadette has to know when she's driving to Kirsten's(the first time) that this is unpredictable. She cant guarantee that Kirsten will get in the car. It was a lucky break. Technically its a coin toss on whether she'll go with her or not and the fact Kirsten doesn't like her gives Kirsten not going the better odds.
This means Bernadette must have alternate scenarios in her mind. There is premeditation here. The huge ruse over the bobbies dinner is proof of this. So if Kirsten refuses to go for a ride, plan B or C must immediately take effect. Bernadette would immediately realize no one is home. This allows for the assault/murder to take place inside Kirsten's house. It also creates a situation of no witnesses.
So either way, Kirsten was doomed whether she goes for a ride or not.
I would love to read the court transcripts, interrogation of Bernadette, etc. Not just as a peak into her state of mind but to find out how deep the layers of her hatred of Kirsten went and if it had reached the point of stalking.
I have a feeling that a lot of info was held back in this case, likely due to the age of the two involved and probably out of respect for the victim's family.
Do u think bernadette lured Kirsten out to sexually assault her and then kill her?
What else can be her prime motivation? If all she's interested in doing is murdering Kirsten, she can do it at her house with no pretense. Its not like she was opposed to doing it there.
If she's only interested in arguing with her with a chance of it spiraling out of control, she can do it right there.
She wanted Kirsten alone and in private...and she planned it days in advance.
When someone takes another person to a secluded place, 99.9% of the time it involves sex.
That's an interesting opinion. How did you come to that conclusion? What about Bernadette suggested that she was some sort of sexual deviant? Do you think she is still capable of sexually assaulting someone else?
IMO its the only conclusion that can be reached. I mean...does anyone seriously buy the whole bullying angle? I don't. Even if Kirsten was a mean girl bitch, I still don't buy it. There's not enough fuel on that particular fire that would lead to murder.
I also don't buy just jealousy/envy in general that reaches a boiling point that led to murder. A sign that it went deeper than that is the fact school had been out. These two are not friends, meaning they have little to no contact. This should've been a cooling off period for Bernadette. It wasn't. So even when the two are seperated, Bernadette still has Kirsten on the brain. It had likely reached the level of obsession.
Like I mentioned before, I wish we could know if stalking was a factor in this case. It probably was but just like with whatever happened in the car, the truth will forever elude us.
I don't think its a coincidence that the plan was set into motion when Kirsten was at cheerleading camp. I think Bernadette stalked her and witnessed Kirsten having the time of her life, and this sent her emotions into overdrive. I have no idea what Kirsten's romantic life was like, but maybe Bernadette spotted her with a BF, and this helped send her over the edge.
It was obvious from jump street that Kirsten didn't like her at all..yet Bernadette continued to pursue her...literally to her front door before taking her life. This is another sign that her interest was beyond seeking friendship.
One more thing....LE did a huge disservice to Kirsten and this case by not digging beneath the superficial surface and simply taking everything at face value. There are many unknown variables here. BOTH girls lives needed to be placed under a microscope and see what the common link was, if any.
As far as Bernadette being a sexual deviant goes, the fetish aspect mere speculation on my part. If it wasn't a full blown sexual assault or a sexual assault in progress that Kirsten interrupted by fleeing, IMO something fetishistic occuring is not only possible, but likely.
As far as Bernadette being a danger to others, its possible. I hope that Bernadette learned from whatever transpired in that car and how it led to murder and that she knows what her triggers are.
A dream really? She should have been released to an adult Maximum Security Prison she killed that innocent girl for nothing. I feel sorry for the Costa's family to this very day I have no sympathy for her at all she's a murderer and that's what she's always going to be in my eye sight
Anonymous I am with you I kind of wonder why she still living to. And one thing is for sure she is ugly and she is still living us the second thing she never wanted to kill herself she said evil Wicked b****
God bless the people who defend Kirsten. Her vilification is unjust and just plain wrong.
Hi there, never heard of this sad case until today on A&E. I was mortified and wanted to read more.
Has it ever been considered that Jeannette / Bernadette was bi-sexual? That she was in love with Kristen and tried to do something / make out when they were alone? Kristen's comment "you're weird" seems to fit. The more I read, the more I think this wack nut sociopath was in love with her. My 2cents. I hope her / Kristen's family has found some semblance of peace and happiness. Jeannette has NO right to her freedom IMO. I believe Kristen rebuffed her advances so she planned at that moment to kill her, possibly to cover up Kristen telling people what Jeannette was.
To the person who called Kirsten a name, a man named Jay Leone, did you really go to Miramonte high, or is this so etching someone is fabricating for attention? Well 1st off teenage girls a lot are all snotty it's a phase, and if every teenage girl that has a smart mouth ought to die, then 98 percent of the teenage girls in the world would be dead. I'm sure Kirsten had her moods and moments, most teenager's do even guys as well. That don't give a person any right to murder a girl cause she's a smart aleck, I'm sure Bernadette had her moments to. It's a normal process of being a teenager, I was one once, raised a Son and daughter and those years were unbearable with them. I would never want anyone to harm them, esp. kill them. When teen girls get with friends they show off, same for guys, were'nt you once a teen yourself? I'm sure you had moments. Do you have sisters? If so, I'm sure they had thier moments and you would'nt want no one to murder them.
How unnecessary to comment she was pretty (I actually disagree).
Kristen sounds like a nasty, self-righteous pos bully though
Bithes ARE popular. They bully people into liking them. Nothing new.
I think any comments about Bernadette's appearance (positive or negative) is irrelevant. She's a murder, so who cares what she looks like. I don't know what a bith is. Your comments about Kirsten are boring.
Bernadette protti. Its ok to kill someone?those 25 years she should be in jell. Her Kids since they are existing .....they all should know what's happened that time, and all so be tested , making sure everyone in the family are healthy and not crazy like the Mather.
Unless you knew Kirsten personally you should not be judging her....... I knew her I was her friend, we were all friends."" Kirsten was so cute and funny so much fun. Bernadette and I were friends till she murdered Kirstem, some well actually a handful of Bernadette's friends supported her. Bernadette is probaly dead by now, no one"s heard from her or cares to. But dont call Kirsten names unless you know her, she was not snobbish she was friendly and loved life to the fullest. Bernadette got her out of her house under false pretense. Art and Berit were down to earth folks. We had plenty of parties at Kirsten"s home many occasions. Kirsten is forever missed.
Tracey B. No Kirsten was not a bully. She was a delight around people anywhere. The movie with Tori Spelling was way off, that was not a thing like Kirsten. Deadly Women the girl was portrayed perfect, she wasnt like Kirsten, the nee movie the girl portrayed is some like Kirsten, but Kirsten was"nt quite that mean. Kirsten had her moments, and spoke her mind, she talked to kids that no one liked she was mostly friendly to everybody. The girl portrayed as Kirsten in deadly women was more like Carolyn and Karen 2 highly popular girls on homecoming court, in fact Carolyn was homecoming queen.
I can't actually believe this girl gets to basically snuff out someone's life, serves prison time and then gets a whole new start. WTF is wrong with this system? I'm shocked she hasn't googled herself. She must be pretty proud that she basically got away with it.
Still on this Crap! Bernadette is gone from Orinda and people will never see her again. Yes she did a horrible thing and deserves to be punished, but she didn’t, she is paying for it as so she deserves to. She has been outed all over, she can’t go anywhere hardly without being recognized. I don’t feel a bit sorry fro Bernadette, I do Kirsten, I don’t care if Kirsten was as mean as the girl Tori Spelling portrayed, “or like Nellie Olsen” she still had no right to murder her. But she is answering for it and will answer yet to come. She won’t get away with it, (one day her day will come). If she won’t leave her home due to depression that is her karma right there.
And for you posting horrible things about Kirsten, get your facts straight before you call her a ‘bully’. You don’t know she was a bully, and as I said earlier, even if she was. “no right to murder her“. If she did bully Bernadette, then Bernadette should of hit her hard, but I don’t think that’s how it all went down. Bernadette is a Sociopath that wanted accepted and couldn’t accept what she was. She was afraid Kirsten would exposed her weirdness, Bernadette chased her, and Kirsten didn’t want to be bothered with her, so no Kirsten was not the bully, she was the victim of a deranged girl stalking her. And today no one in Orinda is really to worried about the case, cause it is very old. I don’t live in Orinda but I know of people who do, they went on with thier lives, yes they miss Kirsten, but there’s nothing that can be done about what’s been done.
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